Does BSU have a Level 5 Leader?

Susan Fullmer

10/29/2015

LEAD 325

Reflection #3 – Interview

Does BSU have a Level 5 Leader?

     When considering who to interview for this assignment, I decided I wanted to speak with a leader who lead a large organization.  Personally, I have had success leading teams, programs, and even small organizations, but I’ve never experienced leadership on a grand scale.  I invited Dr. Robert Kustra, president of Boise State University, to be interviewed. 

     In class we read the article, “Level 5 Leadership”, by Jim Collins.  It talks about the five levels of leadership, but of most interest to me were the qualifications of a level five leader.  According to the article, this level is a nebulous, paradoxical set of abilities that include personal humility and professional will.  By definition it is difficult to achieve, but according to research, it is necessary for a great organization to have a level 5 leader.  Collins states, “Good-to-great transformations don’t happen without Level 5 leaders at the helm.  They just don’t”.

     Time and time again this semester, we have been learning about the characteristics of a level 5 type person.  It involves integrity and authenticity.  Professor S has said this in so many ways, for example, “Relationships, conversations, values matter. . . I know what you value based on what you actually do.  I can think about what I wish I value, but what I actually value is what I do with my life”.

     I was therefore curious to see if any of these traits would be noticeable during my time with President Kustra. To my surprise, he, himself came to find me as I was sitting in the office waiting room after checking in.  I found him to be personable and approachable.  I grew somewhat concerned 10 minutes into the interview when we were still talking about me.  I was worried about running out of time.  But he seemed genuinely interested in me and my experiences at Boise State.  Throughout the interview I found him to be quite candid.  He answered my questions with what felt like truthful and sincere answers.  When he said, “feel free to ask anything you want to ask”, I felt that he meant it.  I mention all of this because I think this demonstrates some of these characteristics of a level 5 leader: open, honest, approachable, and willing to establish a relationship.  By the end of the interview I felt that I could trust him as a leader. 

     I asked my first question, “If you were sitting in this seat, thinking about going into leadership on a large scale, what have you learned that you wish you’d known in the beginning?”  It seems no surprise then, that the first thing he talked about was the Relationship.  He said, “I think probably more than anything else it’s about finessing relationships and knowing how to apply accountability in a way that arrives at a positive result instead of a negative result”.  He went on to say that as a young person he was very zealous about righting the wrongs and fighting for justice, but that at times he would allow his passion and temperament to overtake him so that there wasn’t always a positive outcome.  He wanted to just jump in and fix it, but that wasn’t always helpful, and it turned people off.  He said, “I think learning how to exercise tact, and be diplomatic in the way you are helping people reach their own conclusions rather than pounding them on the head with it which is what I thought I was really good at when I was younger. . . So, I think I have tempered my passion a little bit in ways that makes me more effective”.

     President Kustra and I talked about many things pertaining to leadership.  Here are some of the highlights he stated,

·      I have to be as careful about what I don’t say as what I do say.  Because anything I say is quotable.  Anything I say can be taken easily out of context and turned into something that was not the intended result I had originally hoped for.  Even when you are not on duty.  

·      I think that’s one of the things that I enjoy most about this job is understanding that for every person that walks in that door, there is a different prescription.  You don’t deal with everybody in the same way.  It’s such a complex set of personalities, and attitudes, and styles, and behaviors that you really have to be very careful in not treating someone that comes in at 10:00 the way you treated someone that walked in here at 9:00.

·      I think that’s the other thing about leadership or managing people is that in the end of the day they have to know that you’ve got their back.  That you’re there for them.  That you can be critical and you can suggest to them that they have to drop certain behaviors for example.  I do this on a fairly regular basis, but at the end of the day they have to understand that it’s because you want them to be successful.

·      The best leaders I know are leaders who really enjoy interacting with people on a one on one basis.  Who are not simply interested in walling themselves off in their office and isolating themselves from people they serve or people who’ve elected them. 

     I asked Dr. Kustra how he stayed in touch with student’s issues, given that he is a very busy man and probably spends much of his time with other executives.  Specifically, I wanted to know if he ever talked to the students.  He was very keen on this issue and said, I think this is what you may call a leadership issue – how do you get feedback on what’s going on from down below?” 

     He has a variety of ways of doing this.  For example, he said that anytime he is out in the community, eating at a restaurant for example, he would often interact with students.  He always asks them about their student experience: what classes they are taking, what is their major, who are their professors, and are they having any problems or concerns?  He said, “I’m not looking to expose anybody.  But I am looking for positive or negative feedback.  So if somebody really does have a problem, I can go back to a dean and say, ‘hey you know what, I just talked to some students and they tell me that there is an issue'."

     He also said that he gets invited to student functions where he can talk with students.  In addition, he talks to ASBSU leadership, gets invited to speak at classes, attends focus groups consisting of a wide variety of students, and speaks with parents about their concerns.  He concluded by saying, “You have to have, in a business like this, a continuous feedback loop.  Where you are constantly asking for feedback on ‘how did we do?’, ‘how are we doing?’, ‘any improvements that need to be made?’  If you don’t do that, it won’t be too long, you’ll see that Fresno State’s enrollment has gone up and yours has gone down.”

     So, is President Kustra a Level 5 leader?  Jim Collins believes there are two categories of people:  Those who don’t have the Level 5 seed within them and those who do.  The article points out that the first category consists of people that will never bring themselves to subjugate their own needs for the greater good.  The second category of people are not primarily interested in their own fame, fortune, and power, but rather they want to build, create, and contribute.  Collins said, “The great irony is that the animus and personal ambition that often drives people to become a Level 4 leader stands at odds with the humility required to rise to Level 5.” 

     I don’t think I could accurately judge President Kustra’s leadership abilities and characteristics in the short time we had together.  But I feel confident that I saw indications of many of the traits necessary to be a Level 5 Leader.

Also check out my blog post titled, "Note to Self:  Next time you interview the President of Boise State University, wear deodorant" (September 2015)